Why Should Cheech & Chong Stop Fighting Now?

Some celebrity documentaries go out of their way to be fawning portraits, insisting that their subjects are the most wonderful, amazing, brilliant humans you’ll ever meet. And certainly Cheech & Chong’s Last Movie makes the case for the lasting impact of the stoner comedy duo Cheech Marin and Tommy Chong, who started out in the early 1970s, quickly moving from stand-up to albums to movies, including their groundbreaking first film, the 1978 commercial blockbuster Up in Smoke. 

But the documentary, directed by David Bushell, doesn’t shy away from the tensions that have long been woven into Marin and Chong’s partnership. In fact, Last Movie is structured around a road trip in which the two men, in the same car, drive through the desert to meet up with Bushell, all the while looking back at their career and the many fights they had along the way. Some of those fights haven’t been resolved, and on camera Marin and Chong dig into their creative differences and opposing worldviews. It’s a reunion film in which you’re not sure if the stars will end up deciding to go their separate ways.

Last Movie opens April 25th, but it will play select theaters on April 20th at 4:20 p.m. (Clever, guys.) To celebrate the occasion, I jumped on a Zoom with Marin and Chong yesterday to discuss the documentary, Chong’s prison stint, Marin’s flirtation with the priesthood and how they handled being totally ignorant of “movie etiquette” while making Up in Smoke. We also talked about their old disagreements, and it’s amusing that, even now, they’re still correcting each other when they do interviews together.

In Last Movie, we see you guys driving together. When was the last time you actually went on a road trip?

Cheech Marin: Our whole life is a road trip! (laughs) We were on the road forever, being on tour.

Tommy Chong: We both got evacuated from our homes in the Palisades fire! 

Marin: Yeah, does that count?

Chong: That was one “together” thing we did — we ran from the fire. (Our houses) both made the fire.

Marin: Singed, but not burned.

Chong: They’re looking at us suspiciously, because ours were the only houses that made it.

Fans may be surprised that the documentary is honest about the tensions you’ve had over the years. We watch you guys bicker about different things professionally and creatively. Going in, did you know that would be a focus?

Chong: It was (director David Bushell’s) idea. We weren’t really let in on the secret until later. (laughs) It was a surprise to me. Like it or leave it, you got to admit it works, and that’s all that counts.

Marin: The thing is, that’s kind of our dialogue throughout the years — we get along, we agree, we don’t agree, we argue, we settle our things. But it’s always continuous argument since the beginning. 

Chong: You almost got it right — we argue, and then you admit I’m right.

Marin: I haven’t gotten to that part yet.

Cheech, when talking about your guys’ relationship, you often say, “We’re not friends, we’re brothers.” Did you notice, from the start, that that would be the dynamic?

Marin: We realized it after a while: “Oh, this is what our relationship is.” Everybody who has a brother can relate to that.

Chong: Personally, I think it was more ordained. The Gods of Humor said, “We have a job for you two to do. Now, you don’t know each other, but you’re going to and you’re going to be together for a long time, so enjoy.” That’s really what happened — there’s no other explanation other than serendipity.

Marin: I was supposed to be ordained as a priest — now I’m ordained as a brother. (laughs)

In the documentary, Cheech, you mention that you considered the priesthood before you discovered girls. Really, how close were you to becoming a priest?

Marin: My clothes were at the seminary waiting for me. You have to send your clothes in advance with your name on it, every piece of clothing — your underwear, your T-shirts, your socks, everything. My clothes were there waiting for me, but there was parties and girls in between, and that changed the road. (laughs)

How much does faith or spirituality factor into your comedy?

Chong: It was in my comedy when I went on my own (after Cheech & Chong) to do stand-up with my wife, Shelby. To this day, in fact, I get disinvited (to events) because if I do have a talk, it’ll be a spiritual talk. They’re looking for the (doing his Man character) “Hey, man…” and “Dave’s not here” — they find out that I do have a very strong spiritual background. There were a lot of things that happened to me, spiritually, that brought me to where I’m at right now.

Marin: “Man’s not here.”

One thing you guys argue about in the film is Chong’s disappointment that you shaved your iconic mustache, Cheech. Do you remember when it came off?

Marin: I was working in a movie — I think with Robert Rodriguez — and I was playing three roles. That’s when I had to shave the mustache off. 

What was it like to see yourself that way after having the mustache for so long?

Marin: I looked like my mother without a mustache. With a mustache, I looked like my father. No, wait! The other way! With a mustache, I looked like my mother — without it, I looked like my father. (laughs)

Chong: No, you looked like a mutha.

Marin: I knew I was on the right path — I’m a mutha now.

With the fights that you have in Last Movie, how much were those conversations prompted by the director?

Marin: Well, as much as he could get it in there asking us questions. (laughs) He knew where he wanted to go — it took a while to get there. 

Chong: It was induced spontaneity. We kept asking him for the script, and he said, “Well, just keep looking for (me while you’re driving).” We just went with it.

But the things we see you fight about in the car: Are those the things you actually fight about in real life?

Marin: Probably. 

Chong: There’s a few videos that are out there that would explain everything that I hope no one will ever see. We’ve got our secrets, and they’ll go to the grave with us. (laughs) Either that or… I went and saw James Keach’s movie about Seth Rogen’s mother-in-law and her battle with dementia: “Oh, I’m close (to becoming that way).” (laughs) I can relate to that blank look! I got it sometimes.

You are often described as doing “stoner comedy.” Did you find that terminology limiting?

Marin: No, I think that’s pretty representative — we were defining what stoner comedy is. But it’s much more expansive than just stoner comedy — you could be a lot of different things as a stoner. We’re smart and stupid at the same time — that’s the art in it.

Chong: When it finally dawned on us that we were going to do a movie, I always had that fantasy… but more like a cartoon. It never dawned on me that it would be a real movie. We were both big Robert Altman fans, and that’s the way he made movies — very improvisational. So when we discussed everything with (Up in Smoke director) Lou (Adler) and told him the direction we wanted to go, he made it happen. It was a combination of Lou Adler, Cheech & Chong and Lou Lombardo, who was the Robert Altman guy. Between all of us, we came up with a movie that we shot in less than a month, and it cost less than a million.

Altman, like you guys, was a huge stoner. Did you ever smoke out with him?

Marin: No. His son-in-law? Yeah, plenty. But we swiped (Altman’s) whole crew to make our movie.

Chong: It was a struggle — it was so new to us, we didn’t know the movie etiquette. We would shoot the rehearsal just in case there was something that we would want, and there was quite a few shoot-the-rehearsal moments in the movie where we just shot the rehearsal and moved on: “Okay, we got it, let’s go.” (laughs) It was just, “Film everything and then (make) your decisions in the editing room.” Neither one of us really knew what we were doing. We knew how to make people laugh — we knew how to make people do it in front of a camera — and that’s all that counted.

I was with (Up in Smoke co-star) Stacy Keach last night at that screening of the Alzheimer’s movie, and we hugged. He got old — he’s suffering a little bit from dementia, but it was so great seeing him. He’s shrinking — he’s no longer the big Stacy that he once was. Last night, fans were telling me, “I remember being in the dark listening to your records with my cousins” — they were nine years old sneaking our records in the dark. Our influence has been on America and the world ever since 1971.

How cognizant are you guys of just how much you’ve inspired future comedians?

Marin: All the time — they come up and tell us that (we’re) an influence. Ice Cube, I talk to him every once in a while. All those guys say, “They wouldn’t be our movies without your movies, because that’s who our main influence in movies and comedy were.” Chris Tucker and all those guys — when we meet, (they) tell us that’s how they grew up, watching those (movies). They got the inspiration: “We can do that, too.”

Pot was seen as revolutionary and subversive when you guys started out. The drug doesn’t feel nearly as transgressive nowadays. 

Chong: I went to jail for nine months for a water pipe, and the only reason I went to jail was that they threatened me — if I didn’t turn myself in and plead guilty to the charge, they would go after my son and my wife. Now my son, I wouldn’t mind him being in jail. (laughs) But my wife, I just couldn’t imagine visiting Shelby in prison saying, “So, how are they treating you, hon’?” I could see me going to jail, which I did — and very happily, actually, when it comes down to it. To me, it was like finishing school — I started off as a preteen admiring the pachucos and the zoot suiters of America right after the war. I always had an affinity toward the pachuco, the badass, the lowrider, which Cheech played in Up in Smoke. 

When I met Cheech, we were just looking for a straight man to be in our acting group — and then when Cheech showed up, it was like, “Whoa, we got more than just an actor. We got a fireball.” No one in Canada knew what he was — a lot of people thought he was Iranian.

Marin: No, they thought I was Indian — like East Indian.

Chong: Oh, right, right, yeah. We didn’t know until we got down to L.A. — we had to come up with a character that the people could relate to, and it was that night that we did (Pedro and Man), and that changed everything. Up to then, we were doing titty jokes from Playboy magazine. When we found the stoner characters, that was it.

A lot is made about the fact that you did stoner humor, but I think your racial background isn’t appreciated as much, especially at the time when there weren’t a lot of Mexican-American/Canadian-Chinese comedy duos. Did you face resistance from audiences because you didn’t look like other comedians?

Marin: Not necessarily resistance. It was more they didn’t know what we were, so that gave them time to give us a chance — they didn't know how to be prejudiced against us. (laughs)

Chong: Yeah, they couldn’t put a finger on us: “Who are these guys? What are they about?” 

Marin: They tried to reduce us down to the simplest things that they could find: “One guy’s a taco, and the other guy’s an eggroll.” (laughs)

Chong: Norma Miller, Redd Foxx’s M.C. at his club — the very first club we ever worked at as Cheech & Chong — before we went on stage, she wanted to know our name and we told her Cheech & Chong. So when it came time to announce it, she goes, “Ladies and gentlemen, here they are: Geek & Gank.” I realize now that that was more of a putdown — “These guys think they’re comedians…” — but I’ll tell you, when we walked off that stage, we had Lenny Bruce’s entourage clamoring to meet us (like) we were the second coming of Lenny Bruce. That changed everything, because we fit in with the Lenny Bruce attitude — that’s really what propelled us into the record business. 

Okay, last question: Which of you is funnier?

Chong: I know funny better than Cheech. That’s why he’s Cheech.

Marin: I do funny better than Chong.

Chong: That’s right. That’s right.