Michael Kosta on ‘The Daily Show’s Role in the Second Coming of Donald Trump

Michael Kosta is not a journalist. That’s the first thing the Daily Show host says when someone asks him a big, important news question meant for Diane Sawyer or Wolf Blitzer. But when I met with Kosta via Zoom to discuss The Daily Show’s role in Trump 2.0 and how it differs from Trump’s first go-around, he was happy to get into it. We also discussed his new memoir, Lucky Loser: Adventures in Tennis and Comedy, in which Kosta writes about the field he actually dreamed of being in: tennis — and how failing at that helped him to eventually excel in comedy. 

Kosta has been with The Daily Show since 2017 — going from correspondent to fill-in host to now one of the show’s rotating hosts — so he’s seen the impact the show can have on its audience. “The number one thing people say to me when they see me on the street is, ‘You’re where we get our news,’” Kosta told me. And while he doesn’t necessarily recommend that, he understands the unique position that he and The Daily Show are in — even if he’s still not a journalist.

I was watching The Daily Show the other night and I saw that you were plugging the book, so let’s start there. Where did Lucky Loser come from?

I’m 45. Am I a little young for a memoir? Yes. But my tennis life is dead, and so that’s kind of how I approached it. This is a wonderfully difficult, challenging, funny and — I hope — inspiring tale of my tennis life. At this point, it’s been 21 years since I’ve done it, so I felt like I had a lot of time to process it. And it’s funny.

The most common question I get is: “How did you go from tennis to comedy?” And I thought, “Well, I better answer that too.” So, it started with stuff I know people are going to like and laugh at and, even though tennis is in the subtitle, you don’t have to know a thing about tennis to enjoy it. We’re finding that that’s very true — it’s not just a sales pitch. 

Well, to ask you that same question you always get, how did you go from tennis to comedy?

My dream was tennis. My dream was to be at Wimbledon in the U.S. Open and I got very far, but I didn’t get anywhere near those tournaments. I would lose a lot. I was a great junior. I was a great college player, and you get to the pros and you lose. There’s these kids from other countries that are playing in a dirt parking lot with a rope tied between two sticks and you’re like, “Oh, they want it more than me. They’re hungrier.”

I would lose Monday, then the next tournament was the next Monday. So, you’d have six days, and as a way to decompress and diffuse some of the pressure, I would write funny things down — and I share some of those in the book. I eventually was hired at the University of Michigan as the assistant coach (I’m from Ann Arbor, it’s an artsy town and there were a lot of open mics). Now I’m finally stationary in one city, so I can establish myself a little bit. I took those travel journals and I created my first set. I’m not saying it was a good first set, but it was the start. And man, once I did it, it was like, “Oh shit, this is what I was supposed to be doing.”

What’s harder, tennis or comedy?

Tennis is harder, but nothing hurts as bad as a joke that comes from your soul that you perform in front of an eager audience that bombs. Comedy’s so personal — the comedy that I like, it’s very personal. I’m not just doing hypothetical jokes. I’m talking about my life and my point of view. And so, when that fails, it hurts.

You’ve been at The Daily Show since 2017. I’m curious, how did things change when Jon Stewart came back?

That’s a common focal point, when Jon comes back, but I think the full scope is when Trevor left, there was this uncertainty. Uncertainty at the network. Uncertainty at who’s righting the ship. Uncertainty with: “What is late night?” “What is streaming?” “What is linear?” And we had many, many months of uncertainty, plus a writers’ strike.

This is for a show that had been on the air for 28 years, where the editors downstairs edited the pilot with Craig Kilborn. I mean, what is stable in show business? The Daily Show is stable. So, there was incredible uncertainty and then I was supposed to guest host in May. Then the writers’ strike came, and I came back in October. Then Israel was under attack. It was like, “Jesus Christ, what’s going on in the world?” Then Jon came back, and it was such a lightning bolt of like, “Okay, we’re going to be okay for a sec.”

We didn’t really know how long Jon was going to be here. I didn’t even know if Jon knew who I was, but I remember the very first day Jon came back and he goes, “I’m hosting Mondays, and the other hosts are Kosta, Desi, Ronnie and Jordan.” And I was like, “Holy shit. He knows who I am!” And now we high-five in the hallway, so that’s really fun.

It gave everybody in that building a big breath of fresh air. And then, of course, it’s just a pleasure and a privilege to watch him go off and do what he does. I get a front row seat, and I just try to absorb as much as I can because I really feel like I’m lucky to be there.

And we won the Emmy. That’s a big deal when executives try something new — which is this rotating situation — and then you get rewarded. I go on the road and do stand-up comedy every weekend, and before someone would always ask me, “Who’s getting the job?” Those questions have died down now. That makes me happy because now I more often get, “Hey, it’s kind of fun.” So, yeah, I think it’s working. 

Although, I get sad when I’m hosting and then I have to not host. It’s like, back to reality. But also it’s exhausting hosting. I can’t believe Jon Stewart did it for 16 years. It takes a lot out of you, especially if we’re all giving what we are and I think everyone is giving a lot. I’m reading every book, I’m watching all the series — I really want my guests to know that we don’t phone this in.

What do you see as The Daily Show’s role in the second Trump administration?

This is hard, and I don’t know if I have the right answer. I can tell you that there’s a part of me that goes, “The Constitution’s been around for 270 years. There’s a lot of momentum in our democracy of checks and balances. This isn’t the first time America has been divided. This isn’t the first time we’ve had an asshole egomaniac president. We will be okay. And our job is to diffuse the pressure, make fun of them, speak truth to power, be the court jester.” And then there’s the other part of me that goes, “Am I making dick jokes while Hitler starts World War III?” And I’m terrified of that too.

I’m not terrified of being wrong because, in comedy, you can’t worry about being wrong. But I do wonder, if this thing keeps going, are we looking insufficient or inadequate? I’m not a journalist. The number one question I get when I host is, “What’s your journalistic integrity and…” And I go, “Hey, stop. I’m a comedian. That’s a very important question. Go ask it to CNN, MSNBC and Fox News.” We have fact checkers and we try our best, but the joke is our number one goal. The only thing we can focus on is, “Are we making a piece that is funny?” And then, the beauty of The Daily Show is, if you’re laughing, then we can sneak in a couple messages. 

But, it’s a good question, and I ask it myself every day. I don’t know what the answer is.

You mentioned speaking truth to power. What does that mean to you?

Jon would say, and I agree with this, it’s finding the hypocrisy and it’s pointing that out. I do think making a joke about something or someone is powerful. This administration loves freedom of speech — but do they? Not if you criticize them.

When I’m doing stand-up, I’m in Cleveland, and I tell the audience, “I’m going to make fun of Trump now, and I will make fun of Biden in two minutes.” I literally say that to them, and as soon as I make fun of Trump, three people stand up and start screaming at me, and then cops have to come and put them in handcuffs and walk them out — not arrest them, but they've disrupted 400 peoples’ evening, so they’re walked out.

It’s like, “Oh, it’s so interesting how much you love freedom of speech, but as soon as I criticize your Lord and Savior, you can’t take it.” Even though Biden jokes are coming! And also, these aren’t men —it’s an alpha man persona, but it’s not the alpha man that I think of or had. My dad was a strong, independent leader of a man. He was sensitive and could talk to people and understand and be kind. Somewhere, we got all fucked up with masculinity.

Do you see your role as a stand-up as different from The Daily Show host?

Yeah. The Daily Show is politics. My stand-up is me. Sometimes that’s politics. Lots of times it’s complaining about my family, even though I love them. I have a love letter to tennis in my stand-up. People sometimes come wanting me to rip on Trump for 45 minutes, and they always have fun, but they leave going like, “You talked about your wife a lot.” I’m like, “Yeah, I’m a stand-up comic.”

Trump does a great job of sucking up our attention and we should be paying attention, but people are also coming to a stand-up comedy show to maybe not be inundated with the headlines all the time.

It’s hard. Anytime I feel like this weight is on me to do a good job, I think, “Man, imagine these journalists.” They actually are carrying the weight of fact checking him, and what do you even fact check? He just said seven things. So, I just love our free press, but I do worry about them. It’s a tough gig for them.

Sadly though, how many people are sticking around for the fact check?

Yeah. I always complain, “Why aren’t these media sources telling us what they’re doing to fact check?” And then someone always says, “No one even fucking cares, dude.” But I hope they do.

Checks and balances is the biggest thing to me. It’s just such an amazing thing we have and it’s being tested now more than ever, and I just hope it stands up.

Obviously, The Daily Show isn’t written into the Constitution’s checks and balances, but I’m curious if you think that The Daily Show has a different role or responsibility, even more than other late-night comedy shows.

I can tell you that the number one thing people say to me when they see me on the street is, “You’re where we get our news,” and “Thank you for helping me through this.” I hear that all the time, and I would never turn away a compliment, but I also think, when we sit in the room in the morning and watch the headlines, we yell out jokes. We don’t yell out societal criticisms or Constitutional amendments.

I’m very thankful that people feel like we’re helping them through it, but I’m not sitting down as a host going, “How can we help America today?” We’re just trying to make people laugh and it gets harder the more serious it gets. But that has always been the goal of The Daily Show.

That’s one thing that I don’t think enough people realize with Jon. Jon is a silly guy. He makes a lot of important points, but he will turn to camera two and do a facial expression for a minute to get a laugh. That’s the beauty. It’s silly/smart. It’s smart/dumb. And it works, so that’s our focus. It’s always to make people laugh.

When Jimmy Fallon rubbed Trump’s hair, I was a bit like, “Yeah, that was dumb.” But then I was like, “Well, guys, what did you want Jimmy Fallon to do?” He’s a comic too. It’s also funny because Jimmy, like all of us, knew Trump as a TV star. So, it almost makes more sense to rub his hair than to treat him like he’s actually a legitimate presidential candidate who wants to build a wall and deport people.

I kind of thought people were a little hard on Fallon because, I would argue that, as host of The Tonight Show, it’s not his job to confront Trump. It’s 30 years removed, of course, but Johnny Carson famously never wanted the show to get political. But with The Daily Show, for the past 20 years or so, it kind of has been the show’s role, so is the calculation different for you guys?

Look, how people perceive The Daily Show isn’t in our control. I can just tell you, we care. We care about the country, and we try to make jokes — that little recipe seems to be delivering well.

But you’re right. Has the role of The Daily Show evolved and changed? Yeah. I remember 9/11 and watching Jon for all the answers. That’s something that now Jon will say, “I hated that pressure. Why was every American turning to this comedian for the answer to 9/11?” But I would also say, “Hey, Jon, you created that. You’re so smart and funny that we trust you.”

The man for the moment, right?

Exactly. I remember when I first guest-hosted in October — right after Hamas attacked Israel — and there was a lot of discussion around it. I just remember saying in the meeting, “Guys, if this is the only week I host, the job of this show is to keep going. Do I wish the topic was like ‘50 Cent declares bankruptcy’? Sure, but it wasn’t. It was ‘Hamas attacks Israel’ and we have to do the show and I’m the host and let’s do it.” I think that sent a message to the staff that, “Hey, Kosta is ready to go no matter what’s happening.” And, it proved to be a success: A lot of people tuned in and I got a lot of, “Thank you for your take on that.” It’s what The Daily Show does best, but is that what we wake up and think about for the show? It really isn’t.

How do you feel about the people who get their news from The Daily Show?

I had Jelani Cobb on — he’s the journalism dean at Columbia — and he said, “Treat your information like your diet. Have some junk information, have some NPR information. Try some other information that you’ve never tried before. Treat it like a diet.” I liked that. I think The Daily Show is a very important part of that meal —and it can be a main part — but make sure you’re having other nutritional value as well. For a 20-year-old in college who’s just going to watch reality TV, then yes, turn to us for your news because we will inform you, I promise.

When something really serious happens, like the Hamas attack, is your inclination to want to keep things light or to shed the court jester thing and take it really seriously?

I definitely want to go there. I feel like it’s soft or afraid to not go there, and I notice when people don’t. The way I try to approach it is, “We’re going there. I don’t know the answers. I want help, but let me point out a couple funny things along the way.” One thing that I really don’t like is when everybody has all the answers all the time. I get exhausted with the “expert” and that isn’t how I was raised and it isn’t how I approach my stand-up comedy. I mean, I might have a confident delivery, but I’m a work-in-progress. Guess what? So is fucking everybody. So let’s hold hands together. 

That’s the most kumbaya shit I’ve ever said, by the way.

You got to The Daily Show in 2017, so I’m wondering, are you guys taking it differently this time?

The first time felt more like an amusement ride. Like, “Oh my God, I can’t believe this happened.” This feels more ominous, darker, especially when you see who he appointed the first time. He was at least appointing people that had a lot of experience in that field. 

But The Daily Show comedy machine works the same way no matter who’s in office. It’s been calibrated over many years. You put in the headline, you crank the thing, and it turns out this comedy sausage with some information in it. No matter what’s going on, that’s what happens. 

So, The Daily Show machine is doing the same thing as it did in the first Trump term, but I can just tell you that there’s a little bit more of a somber tone because we’re not sure. I don’t think anybody can positively say they’re sure of where the country’s headed. 

Seventy-seven million people voted for Kamala. It feels like all those people are gone right now. There’s just one guy now. Of course, that’s how he wants you to feel. I keep reminding people, don’t forget this was won by that much.

Yeah, one percent.

I don’t know. I can’t predict the future. I can just say we will continue to call out the bullshit. That’s our job.